Unfortunately Sheri has decided it best to delete her account. I know we all wish her well in her future research and treatment. I'm going to close this thread since it belonged to the Steamed Punk and Sheri. They have both deleted their accounts. If anyone desires starting a new thread on antioxidants, feel free. We have several that can be found via our search function for those interested.
Linuxter said
May 31, 2016
Welcome Om Tig ...
Tig said
May 31, 2016
OM Mantra.........
JimmyK said
May 31, 2016
480 words, 44 of which are I, I'm, my, me. 9% of the total.
con·de·scend·ing
ADJECTIVE
having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority:
Your entire post reeks of a sense of superiority and you then go on to use the term "condescending" twice? Analyze that please.
"As far as your comment about the internet, that was a bit condescending. I only read peer reviewed clinical studies"
The point was you produce nothing. If that is all you read, where are the clinical studies backing your position that Harvoni causes these problems?
I am challenging you to back your statements that the new DAA's cause the problems you have stated. Bust out the clinical studies that back your position. I am doing this for the many people here that are counting on this forum for sound advice and information.
"Why I bothered commenting on here after saying I was leaving, I do not know."
Because you could not let it go that's why. Now prove what you have said is true. Substantiate your claims.
"But thank you for picking at my every word.."
Sorry I must be too analytical.
"....and sending me on my way for real this time."
Well thanks for explaining the backpack.
You poked the wrong bear this time. You have been running from the reality of your condition for some time now and you need to stop running, getting your little feelings hurt and searching for folks to buy into your unsubstantiated babbling.
You are quite welcome here as is everyone, but you will be challenged as will anyone who makes the claims you have. This is HEP-C and not a game. I have absolutely no fear of taking Harvoni or pushing my beloved wife to do so and it is not taken in ignorance.
I have no intention of allowing someone to read your posts unchallenged here.
Now please substantiate your claims. Since you. "...only read peer reviewed clinical studies.." Let's have them.
I have placed my health and that of my wife in my Doctors hands.
Look him up. https://www.bcm.edu/people/view/norman-sussman-m-d/b2299af4-ffed-11e2-be68-080027880ca6
See if he knows of what he speaks. Click on his publications bottom right. He backs his claims with proper documentation.
You may be used to talking to other folks the way you do but not here. We want facts and you have produced none.
People including those you spoke with when you arrived in California are pushing you towards proper treatment. You got in a fight with your Doctor you said, .. stormed out of there too. You are running and it will cost you if you don't stop.
Folks here including me WILL care for you but will NOT coddle you. Get help.
JimmyK
To The Mods: I will take no offense if you delete my response provided you delete this entire unsubstantiated thread. Two members have run from it already. We have good people here that would do anything to be rid of Hep-C and they deserve substantiated information and not this babble.
Shadowfax said
May 31, 2016
There is a lot of information here so I will be very brief and to the point. I just finished 12 weeks of Harvoni and true, we don't know what the medium to long term effects might be as in any new drug that is introduced.
That being said I do know why my short term effect would be if I did not get this potential life saving drug! This short term is not acceptable so time will tell but at least I will / should have some time once I achieve SVR ...
Take care, read everything, the people on this forum are great. They have been there, done that and will always try their best to steer you in the right direction.
SF
Sherri said
May 31, 2016
I definitely have released a lot of bits of info sporadically, I admit. I'm in a defensive mode, I guess. But, I did learn how to objectively look at research in grad school. Prior to that, I had no idea what to look for. With that said, I am very aware that the personal stories of patients are only anecdotal, but I cannot ignore them. Shame on anyone for ignoring them. Yes, the woman had NO pain symptoms prior to Harvoni. She was feeling good and had a healthy liver until the Harvoni treatment. I also am very aware of the money influence in the pharmaceutical industry and will not buy into anything easily. As I looked back about at my notes (I keep a journal) on my diet and lifestyle between blood tests, I realized that it was the period during and after the holidays. I had completely gone off any of my healthy practices for about 3 months. I even was drinking wine again. I started feeling crappy again, so went back to my healthy lifestyle. The last blood test was done at the tail end of the unhealthy period. I know that doctors have told me in the past that even taking Tylenol can cause temporary enzyme level increases. Anyway, my viral count has remained steady for years, as well as all other levels, and when I actually stopped taking care of myself, test results revealed the effects.
As far as your comment about the internet, that was a bit condescending. I only read peer reviewed clinical studies. If I see an article on a .com site, I look it up in professional journals to check for validity. Sorry, I'm not one of those people who jumps on a bandwagon each time a claim is made about an herbal supplement. I'm too critical to do that.
So, as scattered as my comments on here have been, I am very clear on the information I've taken in, whether clinical or anecdotal. I am a very analytical person, which guided me to a career as an electronics technician for 15 years. I later became a special ed teacher, and then an educational diagnostician. As a diagnostician I was required to read studies and also make decisions based on data from assessments we administered. On a team that included psychologists, we evaluated kids with all types of disorders that range from learning disorders to adolescent schizophrenia. And don't get me started on the awful problems I've seen medications cause in children, especially when pediatricians are the prescribers instead of psychiatrists.
Also, I don't appreciate the being prayed for when it was said in a condescending context.
Why I bothered commenting on here after saying I was leaving, I do not know. But thank you for picking at my every word and sending me on my way for real this time.
JimmyK said
May 31, 2016
Sherri wrote:
I am thankful that I have been able to invest much time into my own research on massive amounts of research throughout the world, and glad that I had prior education in how to review various types of research.
Just wondering what your prior education had to say about substantiation? You know, to provide evidence in support of the truth?
You have thus far provided nothing in the way of substantiation of any adverse effects related to any of the current DAA's. You have assumed that if someone takes a particular DAA and then after treatment has a complaint, then said complaint is directly related to and caused by having taken that DAA.
Exactly what sort of education did you receive that taught you to believe something that had no solid substantiation?
You have 3 posts on Jan 19th, mainly related to your new support group you were starting, and the fact that they will not let you teach until you do something about your active virus.
By April 16th you have now seen, "...more and more people writing about bad after effects on Harvoni on multiple forums and chat rooms, I dived back into research. I found that it was fast-tracked for approval by the FDA. That is never a good sign with pharmaceuticals.." then, you, ".... stumbled onto a product called Viusid. It's an antioxidant and immunomodulator nutritional supplement." ..<sp>
Ok just so we get our bearings here, that was a month and a half ago.
Then 29 days ago you reported you were "....scheduled to see a hepatologist at the VA later this month..." You stated then that you had, "...read many, many reports of the neural side effects of Harvoni (on other sites besides this one)..." That was the same post where you had, "..recently been deep into research on medicinal mushrooms and am hopeful that I can at least lower my viral load and improve my liver health." (Still at May 2nd)
You go on to mention some good supplements you had been taking "for years" and then noted, "...The last 3 lab results (taken prior to starting on mushrooms) show low platelets and low WBC. My ALT had risen a bit to 110. My viral load is 404,000 IU/mL, up from 330,000 a few months prior."
Sherri I am not picking on you here. I want you to take your own statements and look at them for what they are. Low Platelets, ALT at 110, your VL up from 330,000 to 404,000. Your health regiment has not been successful. Putting it bluntly now, you are a young woman at 54 and your Liver is in trouble.
Later that same day you mentioned, "...Sometimes I overthink and obsess when making important decisions. Right now, my health seems to be fairly good, so I've told myself that I can wait. If my ultrasound results show liver damage, I may change my tune..."
Respectfully that is the wrong approach but it unfortunately is one you have decided to take. Some folks call it simple denial. Low platelets and ALT at 110 IS Liver damage. To what extent remains to be seen.
Right after that you posted about a woman you "....met who did the antioxidant therapy was on it for a few years. It improved her quality of life, kept her viral load low, kept her liver healthy. I feel badly for her that she put in all that effort and now after Harvoni is miserable."
To equate Harvoni to her current misery is making an assumption lacking any true correlation.
Sherri 12 days ago, you mentioned, "...I'm assuming they will need to do further testing for more specifics on liver fibrosis stage, but not sure. I don't think the ultrasound gives them that info, right?"
I want you to reflect on that last statement. I know you feel you have done massive volumes of research, but to date you do not know your fibrosis stage nor if an ultrasound can identify such.
Your prior education should have first pointed you in such studies to;
1) Identify the problem.
2) Identify the scope of that problem,
3) Research answers to that problem, if any including effectiveness.
4) Substantiate all findings and exclude those that cannot be substantiated.
5) Form the best response based on the above.
That would be an educated approach most likely to produce desired results.
If I told you I took V-Pak and my left ear fell off, would you simply believe that and take that to another Forum and say, "I know a guy who took V-Pak and his left ear fell off." ?
We have one dear sister here that already told you she firmly believes Harvoni saved her husbands life.
Don't let what you read on The Internet ever be confused with proper research and education. Each of your claims and statements to date have been delivered without substantiation. I am not disappointed with the people here, I am proud of them to yes, be open to discussion but also to demand solid substantiation when lives are at stake.
Little sister you need to quit overthinking and obsessing on this and seek treatment that is Anti Viral in nature. You have a Virus and that is what it is going to take.
You are in my prayers.
JimmyK
Sherri said
May 31, 2016
Unfortunately, there are more and more people reporting what seem to be neurological side effects, most of them occurring after end of treatment. The most common complaint is extreme pain in legs, hands, and feet. I've tried to see if there is a pattern, like, a common genotype, viral load, liver condition, but I don't see a pattern just yet. Or, could it be that during treatment, the body's immune response increases and attacks the nervous system? I think there have been some recent updates to the list of possible side effects. but haven't looked into it, yet. Even if the percent of treated patients with these side effects is only 1 or 2%, it still needs to be disclosed by the pharmaceutical company. I have also seen reports of people ending up cirrhotic after treatment, but were not prior to treatment.
I do think that many specialists can be very biased and can have tunnel vision. I was surprised at one hepatologist (who was not board certified) when he told me I was wrong when I stated that I know that once I go through menopause, liver fibrosis can accelerate. This is true for all women, not just HCV infected women. I told him this in hopes that it would help with the decision process in whether I qualified for treatment or not. I also later found out that this non-board certified hepatologist participated in Harvoni clinical trials. An HCV researcher at Emory University offered to be my second opinion if I wanted it and that I should ask my specialist if he/she has any monetary interest in the drug(s) prescribed. He said this because it really is a problem in today's world, not with just HepC treatment.
I was so excited when the DAA's came out. I thought, finally! I won't have this horrible thing in me anymore. I probably would have jumped on the train right then had it been offered. Now that it has been offered to me at the VA, I feel very ambiguous. I know that some people will be annoyed with me that I don't just jump on it now, especially those who have desperately tried to get approved or those who don't have insurance, but I cannot unlearn what I have learned. My viral load is only 330,000 and I was told I will only need 8 weeks of treatment and will be given an 8 week supply. Was surprised when the doc said, we'll give it to you and then see you back in 2 months. No monitoring along the way? Anyway, I insisted on a Fibroscan first (they were scheduling it for 2 weeks after start of treatment). While I am glad for a non-invasive test, (I've had 2 biopsies previously), I read that the Fibroscan is more accurate the higher the fibrosis, or with cirrhosis. So, if my results indicate F! or F2, can I even trust that? My brain is very tired.
-- Edited by Sherri on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 04:11:20 PM
Pablito said
May 31, 2016
Although it's impossible to know at this stage what the longterm side effects - if any - will be from the new DAAs I strongly suspect there won't be any because the mode of action is so specific: the drugs are designed to block the replication of the HCV and don't affect the body more broadly. As opposed to interferon, which was like taking a hammer to the immune system. I have a friend who swears he has long terms side-effects from interferon. Me, I had plenty at the time but no long term effects.
The point about having time to wait is valid to a degree, but please bear in mind that, for most people, the rate of fibrosis progression speeds up at some point, usually somewhere between the 15 and year year time frame. That's how my hep doctor always described it to me. For 18 years I was at F0 and essentially symptom-free aside from a slight toxic feeling; but then in the last 2 years I progressed to F3 and to having awful tiredness, liver pains and other things.
Cinnamon Girl said
May 31, 2016
Hi Sherri, I`m sorry you feel like that, and we really do welcome open discussions here about all aspects of living with Hep C and treatment. Everyone is entitled to express their viewpoint, and please don`t take any comments here as being personal.
Most of us here are very grateful indeed when we have the opportunity to rid ourselves of HCV, sometimes after multiple unsuccessful attempts, and the only proven way of doing that is by a course of approved and effective anti viral medicines. That`s not to say that we can`t appreciated anyone exploring other ways to control their symptoms while waiting, and that`s a personal choice of course.
You mention FDA fast tracked drugs, and yes many of the new DAA treatments have been given priority fast tracking, but they still have to go through the rigorous processes of clinical trials, there are no short cuts in that respect. It`s true that with all pharmaceutical drugs there`s a slight element of risk, and we dont always know what potential long term issues may appear, but when you compare that to the damage that Hep C is quietly doing to our bodies then most of us consider that the benefits of achieving SVR far outweigh any possible risks.
Please do stay around and get to know us, we really are a very friendly and caring group of people and you`re very welcome here!
Sherri said
May 31, 2016
Honestly, I'm disappointed that some people on here are not open to truly open discussion. If I have seen information about many people having terrible long term effects from a drug, I would think people should go into their decision making with full knowledge of those possible side effects. I understand that many people on here have advanced liver disease, and side effects of a drug are not the main concern. But many of us do not have advanced liver disease and should be very informed before putting an FDA fast tracked drug into our bodies. We do have time to wait for the next generation of drugs, which I hope will bring even better results with less peripheral damage. There are supplements, proven by many studies, that can, and do, support liver as well as immune system health. Just as with Rx treatments, alternative health supplements can have different results for each individual. There are also lifestyle changes that do impact our health and how badly this virus ravages our bodies. I am thankful that I have been able to invest much time into my own research on massive amounts of research throughout the world, and glad that I had prior education in how to review various types of research. I came here to see what others have experienced with Rx treatment, self-treatment, and any knowledge they had to offer. I have since found other places online that include very open discussions about this disease that we carry with us every day. It's amazing what one can learn when they listen to others' experiences, all of them.
-- Edited by Sherri on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 02:04:26 PM
Loopy Lisa said
May 27, 2016
JimmyK wrote:
Sherri wrote:
So many scientists would not be wasting their time if it was merely "snake oil." Geez. When I see a person's claim about something, I look into if I want to respond negatively. It's just not cool to attack people the way that Pablito and Linuxter did.
Greetings Sherri,
The thing about "snake oil" is the product itself was not necessarily bad, it simply did not produce the results it was sold under. Snake Oil salesmen generally pushed there product as the cure for what ails you.
ACES is a combination of Vitamins A, C, E and Selenium and combined provide a fantastic anti oxidant. Good as it is for the body, it does not have antiviral qualities.
In all fairness it should be admitted that you entered this Forum with an attitude that was negative towards DAA's. You made reference to a friend that you feel suffered negative post treatment effects and that may well be the case.
Do you have any idea how many folks here are presently either waiting approval, in early stages of treatment, just finishing up or perhaps waiting for the SVR 12 news?
I am on Harvoni.
My beloved wife is within one week of finishing her 12 week course of Harvoni.
Folks here try to support and hold each other up encouraging them through and holding their hands while on treatment.
My wife's brother died from Hep C. I had to fly to Colorado to authorize the removal of Life Support because my Mother In Law simply could not do it.
He did not have insurance so treatment for him was just out of reach. Talking bad about Insurance Companies and policies is one thing, but to look down on a substance that actually has a proven cure rate in front of the very people counting on it may not be the wisest entrance into what is a true family relationship we have all built around the hope held out by the current DAA's.
"So many scientists would not be wasting their time...." nor would Companies be able to get $1250 per pill if it were ... (you fill in the blank.)
I am sorry your friend had a bad reaction to post treatment.
My brother in law had a much worse reaction due to lack thereof.
Pablito and Linuxter are my brothers and I know they are very respectful and caring people.
It may be the singer and not the song that is the problem here. You attacked a protocol that many of us here are willing to defend.
You started a Hep C support group. Don't let your prejudices drive others away for proven hope.
Respectfully
JimmyK
Sorry to hear about your brother in-law. It is inconceivable that people die because they can't access medications. It must be heart breaking for your wife and family.
I had the alternate discussion with my specialist. She said you can always try, but in her years of experience, she has never seen one cure, due to them and a waste of money. A lot of non prescribed medications are not approved or checked. I remember reading this article:
I was interested as well in Milk thistle, she said it doesn't hurt to take it, but it doesn't do much either. I saved myself the bother and money. :)
JimmyK said
May 26, 2016
RAGDOLL wrote:
Jimmy, thanks for sharing video. Amazing !! Chris
Thanks Chris I am glad folks are enjoying it. It is informative.
JimmyK
RAGDOLL said
May 26, 2016
Jimmy, thanks for sharing video. Amazing !! Chris
JimmyK said
May 25, 2016
It's a pretty cool video, yes and does a good job of getting down as close as possible to something we non scientists can grasp. The workings of the DAA's are quite incredible.
This video of course has the Abbie Vie slant to it, but one can assume it applies equally to Gilead and the others.
It also demonstrates whereas certain vitamins and herbs are good and have their place, they are not direct acting antivirals and cannot solve the issue.
Glad you found it useful.
Jimmy
Pablito said
May 25, 2016
Very informative Jimmy. I have a much better understanding now of how the DAAs work and the need to match drug class to genotype.
JimmyK said
May 25, 2016
It is important in fighting any virus to understand how it works.
Jimmy
Pablito said
May 25, 2016
Alternative therapies may be fine for certain conditions, but not HCV. Please don't take offence at my earlier post and everyone is, of course, entitled to hold their own views. It was direct but no meant personally. I really care about people who suffer with HCV and I was worried that anyone newly diagnosed or worried about starting treatment may have been put off or misinformed.
Tig said
May 25, 2016
Hi Mark,
In-fighting? I hardly think so. We don't encourage the use of supplementation for individuals on treatment or seeking credible advice on treatment. If an individual comes here looking for accurate information and goes away thinking they can avoid proper medical care through the use of supplements, then we have failed. Good luck.
Steampunk said
May 25, 2016
Thankyou very much for the replies that were positive and supportive my original post was intended as information regarding supplements and not an outright cure but due to the in fighting among members over there perspectives I don't think this forum is for me.
JimmyK said
May 20, 2016
Sherri wrote:
So many scientists would not be wasting their time if it was merely "snake oil." Geez. When I see a person's claim about something, I look into if I want to respond negatively. It's just not cool to attack people the way that Pablito and Linuxter did.
Greetings Sherri,
The thing about "snake oil" is the product itself was not necessarily bad, it simply did not produce the results it was sold under. Snake Oil salesmen generally pushed there product as the cure for what ails you.
ACES is a combination of Vitamins A, C, E and Selenium and combined provide a fantastic anti oxidant. Good as it is for the body, it does not have antiviral qualities.
In all fairness it should be admitted that you entered this Forum with an attitude that was negative towards DAA's. You made reference to a friend that you feel suffered negative post treatment effects and that may well be the case.
Do you have any idea how many folks here are presently either waiting approval, in early stages of treatment, just finishing up or perhaps waiting for the SVR 12 news?
I am on Harvoni.
My beloved wife is within one week of finishing her 12 week course of Harvoni.
Folks here try to support and hold each other up encouraging them through and holding their hands while on treatment.
My wife's brother died from Hep C. I had to fly to Colorado to authorize the removal of Life Support because my Mother In Law simply could not do it.
He did not have insurance so treatment for him was just out of reach. Talking bad about Insurance Companies and policies is one thing, but to look down on a substance that actually has a proven cure rate in front of the very people counting on it may not be the wisest entrance into what is a true family relationship we have all built around the hope held out by the current DAA's.
"So many scientists would not be wasting their time...." nor would Companies be able to get $1250 per pill if it were ... (you fill in the blank.)
I am sorry your friend had a bad reaction to post treatment.
My brother in law had a much worse reaction due to lack thereof.
Pablito and Linuxter are my brothers and I know they are very respectful and caring people.
It may be the singer and not the song that is the problem here. You attacked a protocol that many of us here are willing to defend.
You started a Hep C support group. Don't let your prejudices drive others away for proven hope.
Respectfully
JimmyK
skewedButNotBroken said
May 20, 2016
I tried almost every known alternative treatment known to man including all of the protocols pushed by Loyd Wright. I have tried massive doses of intravenous vitamin c, selenium therapy, I had small amounts of my blood oxygenated and then ran through ultraviolet c radiation and then returned to my body--you name it and I have probably tried it. The end result was nothing and I always felt sick. However, the UVC treatment did help my allergies but that's about it.
Tig said
May 20, 2016
Thank you for the links, I found them informative. No question the homeostasis of these trace elements is negatively affected by a comprimised immune system and sick liver. It will take a practitioner with additional interest in the arts of supplementation and natural healing to provide the monitoring necessary to apply these considerations. You obviously have such a person on your healthcare team.
Don't be a stranger, we value everyone here. Supplementation or the hope of promised benefits from them, have soured the opinions of many. I personally know people that tried to follow these supplement protocols, witnessing normalization of lab values. Some instances of false hope developed and the occasional practitioner that thought things were improving, which lead to delays in treatment or further testing that should have been done. Those delays presented them with advanced disease that may have been avoided. It can result in some raw emotion....
Thanks and good luck with your treatment.
Sherri said
May 20, 2016
Just a couple of studies that came up with one really quick search using the Google Scholar search engine. There are hundreds more on selenium and it's effects, benefits, deficiencies, toxicities. So many scientists would not be wasting their time if it was merely "snake oil." Geez. When I see a person's claim about something, I look into if I want to respond negatively. It's just not cool to attack people the way that Pablito and Linuxter did. I don't do well with confrontational situations and can see that I need to go. Thanks, Tig, for being an objective moderator. I wish the best to all on here and their journey through this.
The use of supplements and the claims of their benefit are brought up a lot and we've got many opinions on their value. When you provide such detailed information and claims, we ask that your data be supported by links to that, without linking to retail sales. As you know, we don't permit advertising.
Everyone is free to share their thoughts and opinions. Claims of efficacy of off label treatments and the benefits of liver supplementation for those affected by HCV will be challenged on every level. But you know that! Thanks.
Sherri said
May 20, 2016
I didn't say that selenium cures HepC. It is good for liver health. There are numerous clinical studies on it, alpha lipoic acid, and silymarin for their antioxidative hepaprotective effects. There are also studies that show that show correlations to healthy liver and HepC treatment results, as well as recovery time. I don't blindly listen to corporations who are beholden first to their shareholders. There is nothing wrong with doing everything to learn about this disease I carry and to learn about false as well as truthful claims. There is also nothing wrong with discussing these topics. It is each person's prerogative to learn or not to learn beyond what our physicians may or may not know, themselves. As for clinical trials, guess who conducts or pays for them, pharmaceutical companies. This is why there are outside organizations who collect what they call real world data once the drugs are approved and being prescribed. It takes time to know everything about a new drug, not just the time they were tested in 3 phases of trials. All I am saying is, I choose to do what I can to stay healthy so that I can afford to wait for a safe drug. How can anyone blame me for that?
I'm starting to realize that this forum is not as welcoming to open "discussion" as the category suggests. I guess I don't belong here and will sign off.
-- Edited by Sherri on Friday 20th of May 2016 08:03:52 PM
-- Edited by Sherri on Friday 20th of May 2016 08:06:01 PM
Pablito said
May 20, 2016
HCV is a killer illness. There are well-proven treatments. Those are what we need to be pointing people to, not scare-mongering, pseudo scientific alternative therapies or animal model science.
Linuxter said
May 20, 2016
I think I'll stick with drugs that will cure HepC instead of using SNAKE OIL.
None of these claims are backed up with any verified, clinical trial data, I call hogwash on selenium curing HepC!
Just because someone publishes a paper doesn't mean much, especially when it's old and outdated and has nothing to do with actually curing HCV.
Dave
-- Edited by Linuxter on Friday 20th of May 2016 07:35:43 PM
Sherri said
May 20, 2016
Selenium is one of the supplements included in the triple antioxidant therapy that Dr. Berkson developed years ago. Many people have been treated by him with successful results in maintaining their liver health. I have read his published studies as well as many other reports on these three powerful antioxidants: selenium, alpha lipoic acid, silymarin. He also recommends high dose vitamin c, which also acts as an antioxidant. I met one woman who maintained her health this way for a few years. Dr. Berkson advised her to wait on the Harvoni until more real world data was available, but she went for the treatment, anyway. She now regrets it and has a lot of health problems that did not exist prior to treatment. The treatment also damaged her liver, so she went back on the antioxidant protocol. When her LFT's showed amazing liver regeneration, like a 1 fibrosis, her doc said it had to be a mistake and had her retested. He still won't admit that the antioxidant therapy has anything to do with it. With that said, there are many people who don't have these treatment related problems and my intention is not to discourage or encourage anyone's decision to treat. But, keeping your liver healthy in the meantime is just common sense.
Steampunk said
May 19, 2016
Selenium is included in the protocol for many Complementary Alternative Medicine CAM protocols for Hepatitis C. Selenium is a nonmetal chemical element with the atomic number 34, represented by the chemical symbol Se. Selinium is a primitive mineral antioxidant. Although it is toxic in large doses, selenium is an essential micronutrient for animals. Trace amounts of the element are necessary for cellular function forming the active center of the enzymes glutathione peroxidase and thioredoxin reductase which indirectly reduce certain oxidized molecules. Selenium increases natural killer cells and mobilizes cancer-fighting cells. Selenium also plays a role in the functioning of the thyroid gland by participating as a cofactor for the three known thyroid hormone deiodinases.
Research Concerning Selenium and the Liver:
There exists a good number of medical research on selenium and liver disease. The following is a list of these published studies and they can be found by their PMID # at the U.S. National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health website:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=PubMed
Anti-inflammatory activity of selenium was demonstrated by normalized blood levels of ALT and IL-6 in LPS-injected animals. In conclusion, selenium up-regulates hepatocytes MnSOD expression, probably improving their anti-oxidant defense, while decreasing MnSOD and IL-6 transcription in Kupffer cells in the presence of inflammatory stimuli, attenuating their inflammatory response. This selective mechanism may explain the anti-inflammatory and hepato-protective effect of selenium.
2008
PMID: 17804075
Vitamin E and selenium supplementation at the given level can inhibit CCl(4)-induced activation and proliferation of hepatic stellate cells (HSCs) and promote the apoptosis of activated HSCs in acute damage phase. Vitamin E and selenium can also effectively decrease the degree of hepatic fibrosis and promote the recovery process.
2005
PMID: 16124045
Cirrhotic hepatitis C patients had significantly lower levels of selenium, glutathione, and vitamins A, C, and E than noncirrhotic patients and that all hepatitis C patients had lower levels of these antioxidants than age-matched healthy controls. Antioxidant therapy (glutathione, selenium and vitamins A, C and E) may therefore have a role in slowing disease progression to cirrhosis.
2002
PMID: 12044532
Levels of selenium and zinc were significantly reduced in untreated hepatitis C patients and overall antioxidant status was lower in hepatitis C patients than in healthy controls. The levels of zinc and selenium in blood have important impact on the viral factors in chronic hepatitis C.
2005
PMID: 16094713
Conclusion on Selenium as Complimentary Alternavie Medicine for Hepatitis C:
Selenium is a very favorable choice of complimentary alternative medicine (CAM) for the Hepatitis C Virus (HCV).
Numerous studies have documented low levels of selenium in hepatitis C (HCV)patients, and when used in conjunction with other antioxidants, it has been shown to reduce oxidative stress in the liver. The level of selenium depletion appears to correspond to disease severity: the more advanced the liver damage, the greater the degree of depletion.
Because Hepatitis C encodes selenoproteins, the virus depletes cells of selenium. Therefore, those with Hepatitis C need more selenium than the average person. Researchers hypothesize that when cells are drained of selenium, the Hepatitis C virus will spread from cell to cell looking for more. Thus, adding additional selenium to your diet is smart for those with Hepatitis C because it is an anti-inflammatory with hepato(liver)-protective effects. Vitamin E and selenium can also effectively decrease the degree of hepatic fibrosis and promote the recovery process as well as playing a role in slowing disease progression to cirrhosis.
Selenium is a critical part of Dr. Berkson's triple antioxidant treatment. Dr. Melissa Palmer also acknowledged the importance of selenium in her interview with Healthy Hepper.
Selenium Food Sources:
Supply as much selenium to your cells as possible with the following selenium-rich foods: brazil nuts, broccoli, onions, leeks, garlic, whole grains, egg yolks, tuna, red snapper, shrimp, crab and lobster.
Suggested Dosage:
Selenium200 to 600 micrograms (mcg) daily
You may want to start lower and increase. Taking a one 200 or 250 dose in the morning and one in the evening is wise as splitting the dosage allows your body to absorb it better.
Selenium Cautions:
High doses of selenium (1000 micrograms or more daily) for prolonged periods may cause adverse reactions. More is not always better!
Unfortunately Sheri has decided it best to delete her account. I know we all wish her well in her future research and treatment. I'm going to close this thread since it belonged to the Steamed Punk and Sheri. They have both deleted their accounts. If anyone desires starting a new thread on antioxidants, feel free. We have several that can be found via our search function for those interested.
Welcome Om Tig ...
OM Mantra.........
480 words, 44 of which are I, I'm, my, me. 9% of the total.
ADJECTIVE
Your entire post reeks of a sense of superiority and you then go on to use the term "condescending" twice? Analyze that please.
"As far as your comment about the internet, that was a bit condescending. I only read peer reviewed clinical studies"
The point was you produce nothing. If that is all you read, where are the clinical studies backing your position that Harvoni causes these problems?
I am challenging you to back your statements that the new DAA's cause the problems you have stated. Bust out the clinical studies that back your position. I am doing this for the many people here that are counting on this forum for sound advice and information.
"Why I bothered commenting on here after saying I was leaving, I do not know."
Because you could not let it go that's why. Now prove what you have said is true. Substantiate your claims.
"But thank you for picking at my every word.."
Sorry I must be too analytical.
"....and sending me on my way for real this time."
Well thanks for explaining the backpack.
You poked the wrong bear this time. You have been running from the reality of your condition for some time now and you need to stop running, getting your little feelings hurt and searching for folks to buy into your unsubstantiated babbling.
You are quite welcome here as is everyone, but you will be challenged as will anyone who makes the claims you have. This is HEP-C and not a game. I have absolutely no fear of taking Harvoni or pushing my beloved wife to do so and it is not taken in ignorance.
I have no intention of allowing someone to read your posts unchallenged here.
Now please substantiate your claims. Since you. "...only read peer reviewed clinical studies.." Let's have them.
I have placed my health and that of my wife in my Doctors hands.
Look him up. https://www.bcm.edu/people/view/norman-sussman-m-d/b2299af4-ffed-11e2-be68-080027880ca6
See if he knows of what he speaks. Click on his publications bottom right. He backs his claims with proper documentation.
You may be used to talking to other folks the way you do but not here. We want facts and you have produced none.
People including those you spoke with when you arrived in California are pushing you towards proper treatment. You got in a fight with your Doctor you said, .. stormed out of there too. You are running and it will cost you if you don't stop.
Folks here including me WILL care for you but will NOT coddle you. Get help.
JimmyK
To The Mods: I will take no offense if you delete my response provided you delete this entire unsubstantiated thread. Two members have run from it already. We have good people here that would do anything to be rid of Hep-C and they deserve substantiated information and not this babble.
There is a lot of information here so I will be very brief and to the point. I just finished 12 weeks of Harvoni and true, we don't know what the medium to long term effects might be as in any new drug that is introduced.
That being said I do know why my short term effect would be if I did not get this potential life saving drug! This short term is not acceptable so time will tell but at least I will / should have some time once I achieve SVR ...
Take care, read everything, the people on this forum are great. They have been there, done that and will always try their best to steer you in the right direction.
SF
I definitely have released a lot of bits of info sporadically, I admit. I'm in a defensive mode, I guess. But, I did learn how to objectively look at research in grad school. Prior to that, I had no idea what to look for. With that said, I am very aware that the personal stories of patients are only anecdotal, but I cannot ignore them. Shame on anyone for ignoring them. Yes, the woman had NO pain symptoms prior to Harvoni. She was feeling good and had a healthy liver until the Harvoni treatment. I also am very aware of the money influence in the pharmaceutical industry and will not buy into anything easily. As I looked back about at my notes (I keep a journal) on my diet and lifestyle between blood tests, I realized that it was the period during and after the holidays. I had completely gone off any of my healthy practices for about 3 months. I even was drinking wine again. I started feeling crappy again, so went back to my healthy lifestyle. The last blood test was done at the tail end of the unhealthy period. I know that doctors have told me in the past that even taking Tylenol can cause temporary enzyme level increases. Anyway, my viral count has remained steady for years, as well as all other levels, and when I actually stopped taking care of myself, test results revealed the effects.
As far as your comment about the internet, that was a bit condescending. I only read peer reviewed clinical studies. If I see an article on a .com site, I look it up in professional journals to check for validity. Sorry, I'm not one of those people who jumps on a bandwagon each time a claim is made about an herbal supplement. I'm too critical to do that.
So, as scattered as my comments on here have been, I am very clear on the information I've taken in, whether clinical or anecdotal. I am a very analytical person, which guided me to a career as an electronics technician for 15 years. I later became a special ed teacher, and then an educational diagnostician. As a diagnostician I was required to read studies and also make decisions based on data from assessments we administered. On a team that included psychologists, we evaluated kids with all types of disorders that range from learning disorders to adolescent schizophrenia. And don't get me started on the awful problems I've seen medications cause in children, especially when pediatricians are the prescribers instead of psychiatrists.
Also, I don't appreciate the being prayed for when it was said in a condescending context.
Why I bothered commenting on here after saying I was leaving, I do not know. But thank you for picking at my every word and sending me on my way for real this time.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Just wondering what your prior education had to say about substantiation? You know, to provide evidence in support of the truth?
You have thus far provided nothing in the way of substantiation of any adverse effects related to any of the current DAA's. You have assumed that if someone takes a particular DAA and then after treatment has a complaint, then said complaint is directly related to and caused by having taken that DAA.
Exactly what sort of education did you receive that taught you to believe something that had no solid substantiation?
You have 3 posts on Jan 19th, mainly related to your new support group you were starting, and the fact that they will not let you teach until you do something about your active virus.
By April 16th you have now seen, "...more and more people writing about bad after effects on Harvoni on multiple forums and chat rooms, I dived back into research. I found that it was fast-tracked for approval by the FDA. That is never a good sign with pharmaceuticals.." then, you, ".... stumbled onto a product called Viusid. It's an antioxidant and immunomodulator nutritional supplement." ..<sp>
Ok just so we get our bearings here, that was a month and a half ago.
Then 29 days ago you reported you were "....scheduled to see a hepatologist at the VA later this month..." You stated then that you had, "...read many, many reports of the neural side effects of Harvoni (on other sites besides this one)..." That was the same post where you had, "..recently been deep into research on medicinal mushrooms and am hopeful that I can at least lower my viral load and improve my liver health." (Still at May 2nd)
You go on to mention some good supplements you had been taking "for years" and then noted, "...The last 3 lab results (taken prior to starting on mushrooms) show low platelets and low WBC. My ALT had risen a bit to 110. My viral load is 404,000 IU/mL, up from 330,000 a few months prior."
Sherri I am not picking on you here. I want you to take your own statements and look at them for what they are. Low Platelets, ALT at 110, your VL up from 330,000 to 404,000. Your health regiment has not been successful. Putting it bluntly now, you are a young woman at 54 and your Liver is in trouble.
Later that same day you mentioned, "...Sometimes I overthink and obsess when making important decisions. Right now, my health seems to be fairly good, so I've told myself that I can wait. If my ultrasound results show liver damage, I may change my tune..."
Respectfully that is the wrong approach but it unfortunately is one you have decided to take. Some folks call it simple denial. Low platelets and ALT at 110 IS Liver damage. To what extent remains to be seen.
Right after that you posted about a woman you "....met who did the antioxidant therapy was on it for a few years. It improved her quality of life, kept her viral load low, kept her liver healthy. I feel badly for her that she put in all that effort and now after Harvoni is miserable."
To equate Harvoni to her current misery is making an assumption lacking any true correlation.
Sherri 12 days ago, you mentioned, "...I'm assuming they will need to do further testing for more specifics on liver fibrosis stage, but not sure. I don't think the ultrasound gives them that info, right?"
I want you to reflect on that last statement. I know you feel you have done massive volumes of research, but to date you do not know your fibrosis stage nor if an ultrasound can identify such.
Your prior education should have first pointed you in such studies to;
1) Identify the problem.
2) Identify the scope of that problem,
3) Research answers to that problem, if any including effectiveness.
4) Substantiate all findings and exclude those that cannot be substantiated.
5) Form the best response based on the above.
That would be an educated approach most likely to produce desired results.
If I told you I took V-Pak and my left ear fell off, would you simply believe that and take that to another Forum and say, "I know a guy who took V-Pak and his left ear fell off." ?
We have one dear sister here that already told you she firmly believes Harvoni saved her husbands life.
Don't let what you read on The Internet ever be confused with proper research and education. Each of your claims and statements to date have been delivered without substantiation. I am not disappointed with the people here, I am proud of them to yes, be open to discussion but also to demand solid substantiation when lives are at stake.
Little sister you need to quit overthinking and obsessing on this and seek treatment that is Anti Viral in nature. You have a Virus and that is what it is going to take.
You are in my prayers.
JimmyK
Unfortunately, there are more and more people reporting what seem to be neurological side effects, most of them occurring after end of treatment. The most common complaint is extreme pain in legs, hands, and feet. I've tried to see if there is a pattern, like, a common genotype, viral load, liver condition, but I don't see a pattern just yet. Or, could it be that during treatment, the body's immune response increases and attacks the nervous system? I think there have been some recent updates to the list of possible side effects. but haven't looked into it, yet. Even if the percent of treated patients with these side effects is only 1 or 2%, it still needs to be disclosed by the pharmaceutical company. I have also seen reports of people ending up cirrhotic after treatment, but were not prior to treatment.
I do think that many specialists can be very biased and can have tunnel vision. I was surprised at one hepatologist (who was not board certified) when he told me I was wrong when I stated that I know that once I go through menopause, liver fibrosis can accelerate. This is true for all women, not just HCV infected women. I told him this in hopes that it would help with the decision process in whether I qualified for treatment or not. I also later found out that this non-board certified hepatologist participated in Harvoni clinical trials. An HCV researcher at Emory University offered to be my second opinion if I wanted it and that I should ask my specialist if he/she has any monetary interest in the drug(s) prescribed. He said this because it really is a problem in today's world, not with just HepC treatment.
I was so excited when the DAA's came out. I thought, finally! I won't have this horrible thing in me anymore. I probably would have jumped on the train right then had it been offered. Now that it has been offered to me at the VA, I feel very ambiguous. I know that some people will be annoyed with me that I don't just jump on it now, especially those who have desperately tried to get approved or those who don't have insurance, but I cannot unlearn what I have learned. My viral load is only 330,000 and I was told I will only need 8 weeks of treatment and will be given an 8 week supply. Was surprised when the doc said, we'll give it to you and then see you back in 2 months. No monitoring along the way? Anyway, I insisted on a Fibroscan first (they were scheduling it for 2 weeks after start of treatment). While I am glad for a non-invasive test, (I've had 2 biopsies previously), I read that the Fibroscan is more accurate the higher the fibrosis, or with cirrhosis. So, if my results indicate F! or F2, can I even trust that? My brain is very tired.
-- Edited by Sherri on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 04:11:20 PM
Although it's impossible to know at this stage what the longterm side effects - if any - will be from the new DAAs I strongly suspect there won't be any because the mode of action is so specific: the drugs are designed to block the replication of the HCV and don't affect the body more broadly. As opposed to interferon, which was like taking a hammer to the immune system. I have a friend who swears he has long terms side-effects from interferon. Me, I had plenty at the time but no long term effects.
The point about having time to wait is valid to a degree, but please bear in mind that, for most people, the rate of fibrosis progression speeds up at some point, usually somewhere between the 15 and year year time frame. That's how my hep doctor always described it to me. For 18 years I was at F0 and essentially symptom-free aside from a slight toxic feeling; but then in the last 2 years I progressed to F3 and to having awful tiredness, liver pains and other things.
Hi Sherri, I`m sorry you feel like that, and we really do welcome open discussions here about all aspects of living with Hep C and treatment. Everyone is entitled to express their viewpoint, and please don`t take any comments here as being personal.
Most of us here are very grateful indeed when we have the opportunity to rid ourselves of HCV, sometimes after multiple unsuccessful attempts, and the only proven way of doing that is by a course of approved and effective anti viral medicines. That`s not to say that we can`t appreciated anyone exploring other ways to control their symptoms while waiting, and that`s a personal choice of course.
You mention FDA fast tracked drugs, and yes many of the new DAA treatments have been given priority fast tracking, but they still have to go through the rigorous processes of clinical trials, there are no short cuts in that respect. It`s true that with all pharmaceutical drugs there`s a slight element of risk, and we dont always know what potential long term issues may appear, but when you compare that to the damage that Hep C is quietly doing to our bodies then most of us consider that the benefits of achieving SVR far outweigh any possible risks.
Please do stay around and get to know us, we really are a very friendly and caring group of people and you`re very welcome here!
Honestly, I'm disappointed that some people on here are not open to truly open discussion. If I have seen information about many people having terrible long term effects from a drug, I would think people should go into their decision making with full knowledge of those possible side effects. I understand that many people on here have advanced liver disease, and side effects of a drug are not the main concern. But many of us do not have advanced liver disease and should be very informed before putting an FDA fast tracked drug into our bodies. We do have time to wait for the next generation of drugs, which I hope will bring even better results with less peripheral damage. There are supplements, proven by many studies, that can, and do, support liver as well as immune system health. Just as with Rx treatments, alternative health supplements can have different results for each individual. There are also lifestyle changes that do impact our health and how badly this virus ravages our bodies. I am thankful that I have been able to invest much time into my own research on massive amounts of research throughout the world, and glad that I had prior education in how to review various types of research. I came here to see what others have experienced with Rx treatment, self-treatment, and any knowledge they had to offer. I have since found other places online that include very open discussions about this disease that we carry with us every day. It's amazing what one can learn when they listen to others' experiences, all of them.
-- Edited by Sherri on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 02:04:26 PM
Sorry to hear about your brother in-law. It is inconceivable that people die because they can't access medications. It must be heart breaking for your wife and family.
I had the alternate discussion with my specialist. She said you can always try, but in her years of experience, she has never seen one cure, due to them and a waste of money. A lot of non prescribed medications are not approved or checked. I remember reading this article:
http://www.naturalnews.com/048514_supplement_scam_big_business_FDA.html
I was interested as well in Milk thistle, she said it doesn't hurt to take it, but it doesn't do much either. I saved myself the bother and money. :)
Thanks Chris I am glad folks are enjoying it. It is informative.
JimmyK
Jimmy, thanks for sharing video. Amazing !! Chris
It's a pretty cool video, yes and does a good job of getting down as close as possible to something we non scientists can grasp. The workings of the DAA's are quite incredible.
This video of course has the Abbie Vie slant to it, but one can assume it applies equally to Gilead and the others.
It also demonstrates whereas certain vitamins and herbs are good and have their place, they are not direct acting antivirals and cannot solve the issue.
Glad you found it useful.
Jimmy
Very informative Jimmy. I have a much better understanding now of how the DAAs work and the need to match drug class to genotype.
It is important in fighting any virus to understand how it works.
Jimmy
Alternative therapies may be fine for certain conditions, but not HCV. Please don't take offence at my earlier post and everyone is, of course, entitled to hold their own views. It was direct but no meant personally. I really care about people who suffer with HCV and I was worried that anyone newly diagnosed or worried about starting treatment may have been put off or misinformed.
Hi Mark,
In-fighting? I hardly think so. We don't encourage the use of supplementation for individuals on treatment or seeking credible advice on treatment. If an individual comes here looking for accurate information and goes away thinking they can avoid proper medical care through the use of supplements, then we have failed. Good luck.
Greetings Sherri,
The thing about "snake oil" is the product itself was not necessarily bad, it simply did not produce the results it was sold under. Snake Oil salesmen generally pushed there product as the cure for what ails you.
ACES is a combination of Vitamins A, C, E and Selenium and combined provide a fantastic anti oxidant. Good as it is for the body, it does not have antiviral qualities.
In all fairness it should be admitted that you entered this Forum with an attitude that was negative towards DAA's. You made reference to a friend that you feel suffered negative post treatment effects and that may well be the case.
Do you have any idea how many folks here are presently either waiting approval, in early stages of treatment, just finishing up or perhaps waiting for the SVR 12 news?
I am on Harvoni.
My beloved wife is within one week of finishing her 12 week course of Harvoni.
Folks here try to support and hold each other up encouraging them through and holding their hands while on treatment.
My wife's brother died from Hep C. I had to fly to Colorado to authorize the removal of Life Support because my Mother In Law simply could not do it.
He did not have insurance so treatment for him was just out of reach. Talking bad about Insurance Companies and policies is one thing, but to look down on a substance that actually has a proven cure rate in front of the very people counting on it may not be the wisest entrance into what is a true family relationship we have all built around the hope held out by the current DAA's.
"So many scientists would not be wasting their time...." nor would Companies be able to get $1250 per pill if it were ... (you fill in the blank.)
I am sorry your friend had a bad reaction to post treatment.
My brother in law had a much worse reaction due to lack thereof.
Pablito and Linuxter are my brothers and I know they are very respectful and caring people.
It may be the singer and not the song that is the problem here. You attacked a protocol that many of us here are willing to defend.
You started a Hep C support group. Don't let your prejudices drive others away for proven hope.
Respectfully
JimmyK
I tried almost every known alternative treatment known to man including all of the protocols pushed by Loyd Wright. I have tried massive doses of intravenous vitamin c, selenium therapy, I had small amounts of my blood oxygenated and then ran through ultraviolet c radiation and then returned to my body--you name it and I have probably tried it. The end result was nothing and I always felt sick. However, the UVC treatment did help my allergies but that's about it.
Thank you for the links, I found them informative. No question the homeostasis of these trace elements is negatively affected by a comprimised immune system and sick liver. It will take a practitioner with additional interest in the arts of supplementation and natural healing to provide the monitoring necessary to apply these considerations. You obviously have such a person on your healthcare team.
Don't be a stranger, we value everyone here. Supplementation or the hope of promised benefits from them, have soured the opinions of many. I personally know people that tried to follow these supplement protocols, witnessing normalization of lab values. Some instances of false hope developed and the occasional practitioner that thought things were improving, which lead to delays in treatment or further testing that should have been done. Those delays presented them with advanced disease that may have been avoided. It can result in some raw emotion....
Thanks and good luck with your treatment.
Just a couple of studies that came up with one really quick search using the Google Scholar search engine. There are hundreds more on selenium and it's effects, benefits, deficiencies, toxicities. So many scientists would not be wasting their time if it was merely "snake oil." Geez. When I see a person's claim about something, I look into if I want to respond negatively. It's just not cool to attack people the way that Pablito and Linuxter did. I don't do well with confrontational situations and can see that I need to go. Thanks, Tig, for being an objective moderator. I wish the best to all on here and their journey through this.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hep.26142/full
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hep.24808/full
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S094029931000134X
http://www.medsci.org/v10p0730.htm
Hi Sherri,
The use of supplements and the claims of their benefit are brought up a lot and we've got many opinions on their value. When you provide such detailed information and claims, we ask that your data be supported by links to that, without linking to retail sales. As you know, we don't permit advertising.
Everyone is free to share their thoughts and opinions. Claims of efficacy of off label treatments and the benefits of liver supplementation for those affected by HCV will be challenged on every level. But you know that! Thanks.
I didn't say that selenium cures HepC. It is good for liver health. There are numerous clinical studies on it, alpha lipoic acid, and silymarin for their antioxidative hepaprotective effects. There are also studies that show that show correlations to healthy liver and HepC treatment results, as well as recovery time. I don't blindly listen to corporations who are beholden first to their shareholders. There is nothing wrong with doing everything to learn about this disease I carry and to learn about false as well as truthful claims. There is also nothing wrong with discussing these topics. It is each person's prerogative to learn or not to learn beyond what our physicians may or may not know, themselves. As for clinical trials, guess who conducts or pays for them, pharmaceutical companies. This is why there are outside organizations who collect what they call real world data once the drugs are approved and being prescribed. It takes time to know everything about a new drug, not just the time they were tested in 3 phases of trials. All I am saying is, I choose to do what I can to stay healthy so that I can afford to wait for a safe drug. How can anyone blame me for that?
I'm starting to realize that this forum is not as welcoming to open "discussion" as the category suggests. I guess I don't belong here and will sign off.
-- Edited by Sherri on Friday 20th of May 2016 08:03:52 PM
-- Edited by Sherri on Friday 20th of May 2016 08:06:01 PM
HCV is a killer illness. There are well-proven treatments. Those are what we need to be pointing people to, not scare-mongering, pseudo scientific alternative therapies or animal model science.
I think I'll stick with drugs that will cure HepC instead of using SNAKE OIL.
None of these claims are backed up with any verified, clinical trial data, I call hogwash on selenium curing HepC!
Just because someone publishes a paper doesn't mean much, especially when it's old and outdated and has nothing to do with actually curing HCV.
Dave
-- Edited by Linuxter on Friday 20th of May 2016 07:35:43 PM
Selenium is one of the supplements included in the triple antioxidant therapy that Dr. Berkson developed years ago. Many people have been treated by him with successful results in maintaining their liver health. I have read his published studies as well as many other reports on these three powerful antioxidants: selenium, alpha lipoic acid, silymarin. He also recommends high dose vitamin c, which also acts as an antioxidant. I met one woman who maintained her health this way for a few years. Dr. Berkson advised her to wait on the Harvoni until more real world data was available, but she went for the treatment, anyway. She now regrets it and has a lot of health problems that did not exist prior to treatment. The treatment also damaged her liver, so she went back on the antioxidant protocol. When her LFT's showed amazing liver regeneration, like a 1 fibrosis, her doc said it had to be a mistake and had her retested. He still won't admit that the antioxidant therapy has anything to do with it. With that said, there are many people who don't have these treatment related problems and my intention is not to discourage or encourage anyone's decision to treat. But, keeping your liver healthy in the meantime is just common sense.