Hep C Discussion Forum

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Chatbox
Please log in to join the chat!
Hep C Discussion Forum -> Post Treatment -> Secondly - Help What does this mean
Post Info TOPIC: Secondly - Help What does this mean
mallani


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3398
Date:
RE: Secondly - Help What does this mean
Permalink  
 

Hi Do and Garfield,

Whenever a VL test is described as an : HCV RNA PCR Taqman 2.0, this is the Roche Version 2 test. Each Lab. can set it's own standard dilutions, but almost everywhere, the LLOQ and the LLOD are supposed to be set at 15 i.u./ml. The latest International Agreement was to drop the Log units scale, and try to use whole numbers. Previously, there was confusion, as some Labs used  a LLOD which was lower than the LLOQ, which was confusing to everyone. The LLOQ of 25 i.u./ml was the standard for the Version 1 Roche PCR test. It really doesn't matter, as you have the magic 'not detected' in your report. Many Labs say 'Target Not Detected'or 'TND'.

It is possible for a report to say <25 or <15 but leave out the Not Detected or TND. This then implies there is virus present, at such low levels it can't be quantified. I'm amazed that Abbvie are using a Lab in Geneva that seems to be behind the times. Anyway, congrats again- let's not quibble over minor matters. Undetected is all we want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



__________________

Geno 1b, IL28B CT,  x3 prior relapser,  ex-cirrhotic, 75 yo, did 48 weeks with Victrelis/Peg./Riba.  VL 1.28m at start, UNDET. at 8 ,12 ,16 ,24 ,30  and 48 weeks.  EOT 15 Feb 2013 , UNDET. at EOT + 28 weeks. SVR!  Still Undet. at EOT +5 years

Malcolm
garfield


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 97
Date:
Permalink  
 

Yes of course, I forgot the case of a breaktrough. So with a little chance it will detected earlier with a better measurement.

cheers



__________________
ios9


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 177
Date:
Permalink  
 

garfield wrote:

Hi Do,

astonishing. Actually should one believe, abbvie has a lab with a most accurate measurement. Perhaps to massage the facts ;) ?

I don't know, if in reality it is a difference between log 1.18 and log 1.4, but the feeling with 1.18 is better.

cheers

_________________________________________________________________________

Well for French people it makes a lot of difference because the lab can tell the patient is relapsing as soon as the patient is between 15 and 25, if he was less than 15 a month before. So I prefer that. The sooner one stop the no-working treatment, the better.

 

 



__________________

Geno 1b. VL 17. M. AbbVie Turquoise II. UND EOT 4. 8. 12. SVR.

"Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."Albert Einstein

 

 

 
garfield


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 97
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Do,

        astonishing. Actually should one believe, abbvie has a lab with a most accurate measurement. Perhaps to massage the facts ;) ?

I don't know, if in reality it is a difference between log 1.18 and log 1.4, but the feeling with 1.18 is better.

cheers



__________________
ios9


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 177
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Malcom,

May I ask a question ?

Here, in France, UND means less than 15, and inquantifiable means under 25. Abbvie told me I was inquantifiable week 4 (less than 25) then, UND week 5/6 (less than 15i.e./ml, so what  ?

Isn't the same for every country ? you wrote that  Log 1.4n is equal to 25 i.u./ml ?

AbbVie's lab for France is in Switzerland, so it's not the same as Garfield's in Germany.

Thanks a lot,

Do

 



__________________

Geno 1b. VL 17. M. AbbVie Turquoise II. UND EOT 4. 8. 12. SVR.

"Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."Albert Einstein

 

 

 
ios9


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 177
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi again :)

I have found my French tests from same period (8th week after EOT) :

PCR COBAS TaqMan HCV Test :

- less than 15 UI/ml

- less than 1,18 log

ARN VHC undetectable.

It also says at the bottom (that is for every body, was not written especially for me) :

"VL Under 15 UI/ml might be detected bu can't be quantified".

 

Which seems to me that Geneva considers one is UND with log 1.4 while the French labs considere one is UND only when log 1.18.

I prefer the French one, more accurate.

Any way you and I are on the same boat, as I did not ask for a French lab test this time, but I realise may be I should have ? in fact the Geneva lab stops its calculations at log 1.4. Leasy them !

Cheers

Do

 



-- Edited by ios9 on Sunday 6th of October 2013 12:27:38 PM

__________________

Geno 1b. VL 17. M. AbbVie Turquoise II. UND EOT 4. 8. 12. SVR.

"Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."Albert Einstein

 

 

 
ios9


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 177
Date:
Permalink  
 

Yes my Trial doct told me the results by phone, so I do not have any paper, but I do

have a copy of week 8, this is why I know the lab is in Geneva.

Here is the 8th week after treatment :

HCV RNA PCR TAGMAN 2.0

HVC RNA :   HCV RNA not detected.

On the side is a column "Is this clinically significant/adverse Event ?"

Under is two columns one for yes, one for no. They wrote a cross in column "no".

That's all.

 

So our paper says the same, but yours has more détails. You'r UND for sure, relax smile

I beleive your doc might have a more detail paper, that's all, may be mine has another too but only gave me the one for  "mostly worried patients" like us  ?

Cheers Hugs Cheers biggrin

Do



-- Edited by ios9 on Sunday 6th of October 2013 12:08:33 PM

__________________

Geno 1b. VL 17. M. AbbVie Turquoise II. UND EOT 4. 8. 12. SVR.

"Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."Albert Einstein

 

 

 
garfield


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 97
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Do and Malcolm, 

        it is the same labarotory, in Geveva. My doc has sent me the copy of the lab fax by mail.

I got it yesterday so I couldn' ask him. It is a hope but I don't know if he had called me prior when I am not UND.

Did your doc tell you the result? Perhaps lab reports from there are always abstruse?

 

cheers

 



-- Edited by garfield on Sunday 6th of October 2013 11:40:55 AM

__________________
JoAnneh


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1077
Date:
Permalink  
 

Great news! Congratulations!

__________________

JoAnne

Genotype 1a, Triple therapy w/Invicek started May 19, 2012

DET 4 wk. UND 2,6,12,24 48 treatment. Achieved SVR 2013!
mallani


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3398
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Garfield,

What a messy way of saying Not Detected! Your VL is stated as Log 1.4, which is equal to 25 i.u./ml

Your starting VL was Log 7.1 which is equal to 12 million i.u./ml.

Your drop in VL is the difference between the 2 i.e. 7.1 - 1.4 = 5.7        This is the Log Change referred to.

The Nadir is the lowest point that can be detected or quantified, and for your Lab, this is Log 1.4

So essentially they are saying you are below the limits of Detection and the HCV RNA cannot be detected.

I wish Labs would standardise the reporting.

Congrats!!



__________________

Geno 1b, IL28B CT,  x3 prior relapser,  ex-cirrhotic, 75 yo, did 48 weeks with Victrelis/Peg./Riba.  VL 1.28m at start, UNDET. at 8 ,12 ,16 ,24 ,30  and 48 weeks.  EOT 15 Feb 2013 , UNDET. at EOT + 28 weeks. SVR!  Still Undet. at EOT +5 years

Malcolm
ios9


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 177
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Garfield,

Congratulations ! that's the 12th Week ! so it's SVR !!!

I would have been worried too when reading your paper, one has to get to the end to read UNDETECTABLE !

I'm sure you'r feeling great right now :) and no more tests till December, so just relaxe.

Huge hugs

Do



__________________

Geno 1b. VL 17. M. AbbVie Turquoise II. UND EOT 4. 8. 12. SVR.

"Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."Albert Einstein

 

 

 
garfield


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 97
Date:
Permalink  
 

Thanks for your answer,

At the first reading I understood relaps. After a while I got back my hope based on RNA not detected written in the last sentence.



__________________
Matt Chris


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1782
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hey Garfield 
Congrats , anytime you see HCV not detected it is super Fantastic 
Absolutely SVR 12  big smile and big relief.
Matt 


__________________

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

61 year old Geno type A1, F4 Cirrhotic, started 24 weeks on Harvoni 12-17-14 ,EOT-5 week = UND, 8-31-15 =UND , SVR-24 Baby YES! 
Cinnamon Girl


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 5629
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Garfield, yes I`m pretty sure that`s what the number 1.4 refers to. 

The most important piece of information here though is this, right at the bottom...`HCV RNA not detected`, so no virus was detected.

Congratulations!!! 



__________________

Jill 

(71 yo, lives in UK)

Was Gen 3a, 

24wks Peg Ifn/Riba, Sep 2010 - Mch 2011

UND @ Wk.4, UND @ EOT, 

SVR Nov 2011 --> Still UND @ EOT + 4 yrs.

 

 
garfield


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 97
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi, 

I got this from "abbvie" and I am not fully sure, whether I read SVR12 or not.

Does the number 1.4 state the sensivity of the pcr?

 

HCV RNA PCR LOG10

     HCV Log10                    1.4

HCV RNA PCR LOG10 NADIR

     Log Nadir                       1.4

HCV RNA LOG10 Change NADIR

     LogChNadir                     0.00

HCV RNA LOG BASE CHANGE

     LogChange                      5.7

HCV RNA >/= LLOQ CONFIRMED

     HCV>/=Conf                     No

HCV RNA > 1Log10  FROM NADIR

    >1Lg10Nad                        No

HCV RNA >/= LLOQ

     HCV>/=LLOQ                     No

HCV>1LOG10 FROM NADIR CONFIRMED

     HCV>1LgCon                     No

HCV RNA PCR TAQMA 2.0

     HCV RNA                             not detected

thanks 

 



-- Edited by garfield on Saturday 5th of October 2013 01:18:01 PM



-- Edited by garfield on Saturday 5th of October 2013 01:19:06 PM



-- Edited by garfield on Saturday 5th of October 2013 02:18:28 PM



-- Edited by garfield on Saturday 5th of October 2013 05:06:44 PM



-- Edited by garfield on Saturday 5th of October 2013 07:24:00 PM

__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
Hep C Discussion Forum -> Post Treatment -> Secondly - Help What does this mean
Legal Disclaimer:

THIS FORUM, IT'S OWNERS, ADMINISTRATORS, MODERATORS AND MEMBERS DO NOT AT ANY TIME GIVE MEDICAL ADVICE AND IN ALL CASES REFER ANYONE HERE TO SEEK APPROPRIATE MEDICAL ADVICE FROM THEIR DOCTOR.